Mayor calls special community meeting related to community center proposal
Published by Jeff February 21st, 2007 in News.Mayor Joe Rogers has called an open community meeting concerning the proposed community and civic center as well as the city sales tax initiative for Thursday, February 22 at UAM’s Fine Art Center at 3:00 p.m. The community is invited to attend.
Here is the text from Roger’s invitation that he sent out to area leaders earlier this week:
Hello Friends,
Everyone is invited to attend a meeting that will take place on February 22 at 3:00 p.m. at the Fine Arts Center Auditorium at the University of Arkansas Monticello regarding the efforts to build a recreation center on the WC Whaley property located on North Main Street and to build a new district court, police department and parking lot at the current location of the Monticello City Offices and old post office.
Stephens Company will begin the meeting at 3:00 p.m. with an overview of the funds that will be available from a one-cent sales tax with one-half cent dedicated to a bond issue. At 4:00 p.m., another major investment firm, Morgan Keegan & Company will make their presentation.
The 50,000 sq. ft. new recreation center will contain an olympic size indoor-eight lane heated swimming pool, indoor basketball court, indoor walking track, fitness equipment , 3 small conference rooms-accommodate 75 people and 2 large conference rooms- accommodate 125 people.
The fire department will consist of 3 bays.
The municipal area will house city offices including the water department, mayor’s office, city council chambers, MEDC and chamber of commerce.
At the current location of the city hall and the old post office just off the square, a new facility to house the Monticello Police Department and district court will be constructed with parking area.
This is a continuation of the existing one-cent sales tax that expires December 31, 2007.
If you need more information, please feel free to contact me at 870-367-4400.
Respectfully Submitted,
Joe Rogers, Mayor
City of Monticello
Possibly Related:
How much community involvement is expected when a meeting is announced only days in advance and is being held at 3pm — a time when many people are still involved in school or work?
Sounds to me like Michael might not be a Joe Rogers fan? Maybe that is the only time the two firms could come and make the presentation. If it is important to the citizens of Monticello, then they will find a way to come and meet. Besides, the invitations weren’t sent to everyone, just local businessmen and associates, so we know who the Mayor really intended to be at the meeting; those that would support, and who might have influence in Monticello to see that Monticellonians vote to continue the sales tax. The Mayor has a plan.
“If it is important to the citizens of Monticello, then they will find a way to come and meet.”
Unless you sit around at home all day, are a business owner or someone who can “sneak away,” the possibility for someone getting off work, say at SeaArk or War Eagle is slim to NONE for a meeting about a commmunity center.
If community involvment is wanted then it should be an invitation to the COMMUNITY, not just those as stated above, “just local businessmen and associates; those that would support” EVERYONE IN THIS TOWN HAS A RIGHT TO AGREE OR DISAGREE!! it should not be OPEN to every one not just those that would support. GET REAL JOSH, re-read what you wrote and think about it. you just shot yoruself in the foot with that statement!
Unfortunately I can’t “sneak away” from my job to attend the meeting, but I do want to say that, from the information I have read so far, I am 100% FOR this community center at the W.C. Whaley site. Sounds like a big plus for Monticello, and even though it is in a “historic” district - it is conveniently located close to downtown, and no more out of place than the detention center might be on South Main Street amid the older stores, older homes and 75-year old courthouse.
I do have some reservations about tearing down the old post office and municipal building/fire station. I agree with one post-er who said that the fire station might be turned into a place to tour - kind of like a museum for the history of Drew County’s emergency workers. The ground in front of the detention center seems like a better place for a new building to house District Court and the Police Dept. Both definitely need new up-to-date facilities. … and of course, we do need more parking uptown. I don’t have a good suggestion for that. There is one building that is sort of next to the railroad tracks - I think it used to be a dance studio and/or a karate place - and it is full of junk now. I don’t know if it could be safely “severed” from the Tree-O building or not to be leveled for a parking lot. Just thinking about possibilities …
I completely agree with Karen W.
That fire station/municipal building is a part of our history and our heritage….I would completely and utterly never be for tearing it down.But is one issue attatched to another?Do we have to tear that down in order to get the community center?Or can we seperate these issues and decide on them individually?
I think the Mayor and others needs to realize that the old post office is on the National Register of Historical Places. It can not be torn down or changes made to it without their permission. Also part of North Main is on the National Register. You can check this out by going to the National Register of Historical Places or Arkansas Historic Preservation Program.
As much as it sounds like I’m against this plan, I am not! I’ve always thought that Monticello has a long-neglected potential to be a true hub for southeast Arkansas. Unfortunately, this potential has been unfulfilled by generations of city leaders. I’m ready for my hometown to step up to the plate and grow into the city that it should have been long ago. This community center and projects like it are part of that growth.
However, if this is a community center… Then the city leaders should be seeking true community involvement at all levels. To me, it seems that the plan for this project is already packaged and sewn up into a nice bundle without the input of the people that will pay for it and use it. Good government is transparent government.
As for the fire station as a museum of sorts, I think whoever suggested that idea is on to something brilliant. It could be an extension of the Drew County museum if neccessary… But our fire department has been organized for nearly 100 years and I know they have a variety of antique equipment that would make for an interesting fire service musuem — something there are few (if any) of in the state of Arkansas. The centerpiece of the museum could be the retired 1942 Ford pumper that is currently taking up space at the MFD’s Station 2 on Scogin Drive.
Regarding Karen’s Statement:
“Sounds like a big plus for Monticello, and even though it is in a “historic” district - it is conveniently located close to downtown, and no more out of place than the detention center might be on South Main Street amid the older stores, older homes and 75-year old courthouse.”
This is EXACTLY the mentality that’s gotten us haphazardly where we are today. (You know…..with our Chamber of Commerce next door to a junk yard, a detention center a half block from our downtown, a newly constructed saw mill no where near the industrial park……and this list could go on and on.) Two wrongs, at least in this case, will not make it right. Our city officials and other community leaders involved in making decisions for our community seem to have a severe phobia of organized, goal-based planning (if this is you, please visit this site; they attest to having a 24-hour cure for you). Sure, anyone can plan for tomorrow…….but it’s the day after, next week, 10 years down the road where we fall short.
Our leaders need to take a step back and look at the big picture. Karen, I mean no disrespect in mention of your comment, but this is the attitude that has ran this community for years…..a community that seemingly refuses to live up to its potential. We MUST have clearly defined, long-term goals for community development.
Community development should be viewed as a life-long journey, not a drive-across-town trip to Wal-Mart. Without defining benchmarks along our journey and a long-term goal in our focus there will be no measure of our progression or knowing which way we should be traveling.
I know I’ve said it before, but it seems I am ineffectively communicating the importance of zoning. The million dollar question is, “Do we want to plan for growth and guide it in a way that would benefit the community as a whole, or do we want to just let it happen and deal with the consequences later?” 1.
The key to successful growth (in any application) is PLANNING. In order to create a plan that can be followed for more than a year’s time, you have to set guidelines that will protect your plan. In our case, adopting a city zoning ordinance is the most crucial step in both developing & protecting a plan fo community development. We shouldn’t just erect a building in a location it doesn’t belong simply because the property is readily available. Using that location for ANY of the purposes the mayor is proposing would be done so in vein where community growth and planning are concerned.
Links to additional resources regarding this post.
1. Quote taken from The Importance of Planning for our Future link above.
Look, everyone knows the importance of the old post office and municipal building. I am sure if people speak with Joe and voice their opinion about the importance of the building, then he will only consider remodeling it. There are many things that can be done to the old fire station, and with the municipal court moved, and possibly the Mayor’s office, there is a great deal of room to expand the police department, which is well needed. All of the area at the South of this building, can be resurfaced for parking, and should be a great deal of space for the police department. Look, we all know that in a small town like Monticello, in order to get things done, there are a few “big dogs” that you have to have behind you. Small town Monticello has always been about politics and it will reamin that way. There are a few people, and I hate to say this, that call the shots from a political standpoint. If you want to get re-elected, then you have to consider the opinions of those people. Those people are also big campaign donors. I agree that if this is a community center, then yes the community should be involved. Possibly the Mayor, along with the suppoters of the plan, could hold a “public meeting” at the middle school here in town to present the plan, and answer questions. The voters of Monticello, as in the past, are not going to vote to extend anything to do with taxes unless they know something about it. I am a Joe Rogers supporter, and yes, I am sure it shows. But, this Mayor is having to deal with a lot coming into office, and he is doing the best he can. I know personally that he is easy to find, and that he is willing to talk about any issues with members of our community at any time. He, like many, realize that the citizens of Monticello elected him, and they can also remove him when the time comes. Regardless, the community center is a great idea. Star City has one, and it is great, and many different people use it, and hold meetings and events there. In fact, many people with tithes to Monticello use the Star City facility. This is a great opportunity to spend our tax dollars on something that is needed, and that can be used by all citizens. We need to think long term, and is this facility something that is a good investment, and will benefit people for years to come? The answer to that, is yes!
Mary, your so right, the national register means nothing in this idea. (If it dosen’t) maybe we could tear down the courthouse, and build new city and county office’s at that location.
Mary-
I know that having a private property on the National Register means nothing with regards to demolishion. Does that change when the registered property is public?
Marsha-
Why tear down the county courthouse when this is a city project?
Private property (one persons decision) public property (decision of many), county/city once it’s gone, (it’s gone). think of the pictures you’ve seen of the old court house on the square, i wish it was still there, maybe someday that will be said of the post office, city building, & fire house. IF this passes.
You have to understand what the Mayor’s initial proposal he wishes to pass is the tax to build the community center. Anything to do with the current municipal building/post office will come AFTER the construction of the new building. Passing the tax does not mean we are passing it to tear down a building, it means we are passing it to build a new one. A lot can happen in the time the community building is being constructed to change the plans for the current building. And again, let me say, that the Mayor is not dead set on tearing down the current building. He simply said that was a possibility. I am sure if there is a great deal of opposition, or if there are suitable other ideas, then he will be more than willing to go along with that.
And on the county courthouse, the previous county judge made great attempts to do something with the current courthouse, and she was always shot down. This is a separate issue, but renovation is needed, but this will be an issue for the county to decide on a county tax, or millage increase, or whatever. The courthouse or anything else should NOT play an issue on voting for an extension of this city tax. This extension will go for roads, the completion of the sports complex, and hopefully the community center. Even if the community center is put on the back burner, there are a lot of things that can be done with this money. Speaking as a parent with kids who use the new complex, I would like to see if fully completed and soon. That is a great addition to Monticello, but why have a “half done” addition? The extension of this tax will benefit Monticello in many ways, it just so happens we have a Mayor who is looking into the future and sees what potential Monticello has.
Maybe he should read these posts.
I think that is a great idea! Maybe Jeff (publisher) can print these comments off and forward them to him. Public opinion should always be welcome!
Actually, the way that the vote will have to be structured, according to the representative from the Rose Law Firm yesterday, means that we’ll be voting on several, separate initiatives. One to extend the tax, one to approve the bond issues (that initiative will have to be clearly written to describe EXACTLY what the money will be used for), one to tear down the buildings and build the new police department, etc. So a June election, if there is one, will bring possibly a half dozen or more initiatives on the ballot.
There has still not be a public forum provided for people to question and dialogue about the overall concept itself. Perhaps that will be forthcoming.
BTW, I highly encourage those of you who have mentioned it to contact the mayor directly. ML will not position itself to be the bearer of good/bad news. I’d encourage you as citizens to voice your concerns and encourage our elected officials to get involved in conversation and dialogue in an open fashion with as many citizens as possible, and not just with a handful of business leaders.
Chris, I appreciate your comments. I agree 100% that our community needs a plan for future development BEFORE we move forward with any new projects! Many, many historical places have been lost in Southeast Arkansas due to lack of appreciation and planning. Still, many more neighborhoods have been converted from clean, safe places to raise children, to high-traffic commercialized/residential areas.
My concern is this. There have been “public meetings” held in the past to gain input from citizens on various planned projects. The turn-out for such meetings is always very low!
This apathy, commonly shared by Monticellonians, has enabled the destructive machine of “progress through chaos” to bloom and grow!
When, not if, public meetings are held, how many Monticellonians will show? Can we turn-out in large numbers to share our vision and work together to preserve and promote a clean, safe and progressive “economic center” for our region?
If you doubt that public meetings will be held, call the mayor TODAY. Ask him for such meetings. Let him know that the tax will not pass unless the projects it funds are designed for and approved by the taxpayers!
Personally, the plan for the community center that I saw yesterday did not look like it was designed specifically to fulfull the needs of Monticello. It looked like a copy obtained from a project completed by some other community. Monticello is unique in its needs. We need to have public input gathered and used to determine the design of the community center and its location.
Yes, public involvement/support/initiative has been, and will probably always be a challenge. It’s a challenge, though, (thanks to Jeff) that I believe ML is helping to address.
There are many reasons public involvement are extremely low: 1)poorly advertised meetings (such as yesterday’s) 2) poorly scheduled meetings (such as yesterday’s) 3) No Interest in the Public’s Input
Poorly Advertised:
Every public meeting should be place in the newspaper, ML.Com, & radio at least one week prior.
Poorly Sheduled:
If you want public input (and I don’t believe the mayor really did) you plan meetings for when the most people can come. As for the comment of “the only times the 2 firms could come”….we’re talking about millions of dollars: Those 2 firms would have had someone here at 2:00AM if that’s what was decided.
No Interest in Public’s Input:
Many steps could be taken by our city’s officials to solicit the community’s involvement. The fact of the matter is that the leaders in our community have been “flying under the radar” for so long in an attempt to achieve their short-term goals by following the path of least resistance that they’ve adopted the mentality that the public’s input is not only insignificant, but also not necessary. A) How about starting a public campaign that would solicit each of our community’s businesses to elect a representative for every 20-30 employees and make sure these people were allowed the time to attend these meetings regardless of their scheduled time? B) We could attempt to impress upon our public the possible affects (good & bad) of the decisions being made without them. C) We could have asked the community to submit possible designs and/or locations for this proposed building.
The fact is…..the less the public knows and they less they are made aware, the easier it is for the Mayor and other City Officials to “do their job”.
I agree Nita about how many of our neighborhoods have been run down, etc. However, the Mayor can not be a policing power for clean neighborhoods. At once the county hired an individual to see that homes were kept neat, and property was kept up, and that areas were safe for children. Possibly, this could be something that the city could look into. The Mayor’s plan for a community center is long overdue. Just because some area businessmen (or women) refuse to allow industry to come into Monticello for fear of losing their employees to higher paying jobs, should not stop us from trying to progress as much as we can. This proposed community center will be another “draw” for this area, and possibly for potential employers. Look at where our municipal court is housed, our MEDC office is housed, it is actually kind of embarassing. This center would allow for new offices, and new meeting facilities for both of those mentioned to use. It seems to me that this big issue surrounding all of this is, “what is going to happen to the current municipal building?” Well, only the Mayor can answer that. He has a suggestion, but others have suggestions too, that I am sure he will listen to, and consider. As we have seen in the years past, just because a Mayor suggest something, doesn’t mean that it happens. On the other issue of “public meetings,” yes, there have been several in the past, and I agree that the turn out is low. But, you can’t take everyones hand and walk them to the meeting, and make them attend. It is kind of like voting, if people do not get out and vote, then really, they do not have any place to complain about what happens. Same here; if people don’t get out and attend the meetings, and ask questions and show support or opposition, then they don’t have any place to complain about the outcome. Someone mentioned scheduling. Yes, everyones schedule is different, so the Mayor could never pick a time that would accommodate everyone, so our hopes would be that possibly several meetings would be held at different times, to allow as many people to attend as possible at different time periods.
Monticello could be a hub for Southeast Arkansas. It takes our community leaders to step up to the plate and bring forth ideas for change and progress, in order for us to be successful. I think this Mayor wants change, and wants to beging progess now, and that isn’t something we have been used to in the past.
Josh, I completely disagree. The mayor and other elected positions have a job. This JOB is to effectively represent and make decisions based upon the public’s needs, desires, and their well-being to promote and develop a higher “quality of living” in our community. If a few hands need held in an effort to gain the knowledge that’s necessary to this job, that’s EXACTLY what the mayor should be doing.
The Mayor does have a job, and part of that job is to help the growth of Monticello. Rather it is one person or 100, he can not hold their hand and lead them to meetings or to participate. A public meeting is for those who can attend, and if people are interested then they should make an effort to attend. Sure, everyone won’t be able to make it due to time issues, but that is when the Mayor should consider having multiple meetings, all at different times (day and evening; weekdays and weekends) to try to reach as many people as possible. However, he is not a babysitter or a caretaker, and we are not babies, but adults and we should make good clear decisions on what is best for our community. Don’t shoot an entire proposal down just because you don’t like one issue or one Mayor.
Three days notice.
Meeting at 3pm.
The mayor did not want normal, everyday citizens at this week’s meeting.
There’s no way to dispute that fact. I just hope future meetings don’t follow this trend.
Yes, Michael, when you take those points and couple them with knowing the mayor didn’t really “advertise on a truly public level” at all. It becomes painfully clear that our Mayor didn’t want or feel he needed public participation.
Regarding our Mayor: I do not dislike and certainly do not blame our Mayor. He is simply stepping in where previous Mayors have stepped out. This having been said, he’s not really “changing” anything. This idea along with many others in the past has not been well planned, does not address a Top-10 maybe not even a Top-20 need for our community, and is scheduled for Governmental Use in the dead center of a residential area.
Sounds like our mayor is just like many many before him to me.
I agree, three days notice, not enough time for anyone; and to my knowledge Monticello Live is the only publication that produced a copy of the letter sent. Yes, it is clear that possibly this was not a meeting which was intended to be open to the public. But, possibly this was a meeting where he was intending to get feedback from area businessmen and leaders on the plan, before going further with the idea. This center has been addressed in the past, but no other Mayor has attempted to act on it. I agree that the location isn’t the best, but is what we currently have any better? Would it make sense for the city to go and purchase property and erect a building, or purchase a building in another location when we already own this one? To me, and speaking from a point of having friends in the firefighting business, our fire station is in desperate need of help. There is not enough room for offices, there is not enough bunk area, there is nothing modern (in my opinion) in this building. We have no room to house all of our trucks or equipment, and we are limited to what type of equipment (trucks) we can purchase due to the size of the bays, and the number of bays. Our municipal courtroom is in desperate need of help. To be frank, this is a joke. I do not understand why we want to build an olympic size indoor pool, when we are speding such a large amount of money on the current pool. A major issue of mine would be security of the building. Again, look at the shape of our current pool, basketball courts, etc. People don’t respect property, and if we are going to vest that kind of money into something, then we need to make sure that in a years time, it doesn’t look like the rest of the areas around town.
Chris McCall makes some really good points about the need for community planning vs. rushing into committments we may regret a few years. I also like the idea of a community center, but I don’t like being rushed (June 12) into a decision on taxes (renewal, extension, continuation, new, old…take your pick) without a sense of focus on professional community development. If we do agree to be taxed (again), perhaps the money would better be used to develop a community plan FIRST. I have lived in many communities and cities and have seen that the most “successful” communities have a community planning department that considers infrastructure (sewer, water, utility connections, historic districts, public recreation areas, drainage, etc). Those departments minimize unintended consequences and make recommendations to the city leaders/representatives (Mayor, City Council) who decide whether to approve and how to accomplish. Twenty-for-the-Future and MEDC are fine folks, but they are not trained in community planning/development; I don’t think they have ever claimed to be.
Why are we in such a hurry to vote on a tax (new, old, same, different) imposition for the next 15 years (which also taxes food purchases)? Consider the wisdom of Winston Churchill, “I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.” We already have a pretty large “bucket” to lift just across Hwy 35 from the War Eagle plant. So, why the rush to have a “Special” vote before election day? I know why; do you? James Bovard, a civil libertarian, said, “Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.”
We do need a community planning committee; I completely agree. This committee should be made up of the Mayor, council members, community leaders, and representatives of the general “working class person.” Community center or not, we do need to vote to extend this tax for the purpose of completing our sports complex, possibly developing a community planning committee, and other areas that need improvement. I am assuming from the “bucket” you are referring to the industrial park and the new building?On that “bucket,” I give 100% of the credit for that still being vacant to a couple of businessmen in Monticello who don’t want to see industry come into town that would compete for employees at higher wages, to where it will cut into their share of the profit. Maybe this should be something we should try to look at getting under control; greed.
The vacant building in the industrial park is just one of the overwhelming lengthy list of issues that should receive the attention of our City Officials and our taxes LONG BEFORE a community center.
Example: The house I currently live in, was originally located on the property where the County Court House currently resides. This house was moved from that property in order to make room for the construction of our court house. There is a very simple explanation as to why this house is still in great condition while the municiple buildings, court house, and other various buildings are in what seems to be a public consensus of dire need of “replacement”:
MAINTENANCE…..I think this town has plenty of abondoned buildings……repair what you have and move on with life. Have you seen the back side of the police station? They don’t take care of that building….why give them a new one? We can’t just use and use and use, and then move on to another option when you’ve used it all up. On-going maintenance has proven countless times to be more cost effective and just has efficient as building new and tearing down the old.
Just for my information-Does anyone know if the mayor has an email address?
K.T., the advertised email address is: montcity@ccc-cable.net
Thank you!
Hi, Josh. Thanks for the reply. Yes, you have the right “bucket” and I understand your concern that the “greed” of some may be the reason the bucket has not been lifted. While I may not agree with you on that, I am convinced that ten years ago, trained community developers would have looked at the national economy and projected that with NAFTA and the national shift from manufacturing to service industries, such a building would be difficult, at best, to sell in a community like ours. I believe that particular White Elephant would not have been recommended if we had professional planners who would have looked at our economy and predicted the tax money spent (still being spent?) could have better been used (maybe to complete the sports complex). I don’t believe a committee of well-intended volunteers and untrained political leaders would have had - or will have - the capability to minimize the unintended consequences. If I vote for a tax, I would like to know it won’t be used on another such bucket. Thanks.
I agree 100%. I personally know that the building could have been filled several times, but was fought with great opposition by some. The housing market in Monticello isn’t like it used to be. People are leaving town every day, and honestly, I don’t think there are as many coming to Monticello as just a few years ago. Why? We have very little to attract people. For starters, jobs. Yes, the unemployment rate may be low, but so is your chance of finding a job in this town. Honestly, we need to pass the tax to form a community planning committee, but to also form a committee that is capable of putting together a “package” that will attract industry to Monticello, and help bring in jobs, and people. Right now, there isn’t much out there. Community center or no community center, I do believe that part of that tax should be used for a new fire station. Our town is LONG overdue! Take a tour of the current facility, and you will see.
This is EXACTLY the mentality that’s gotten us haphazardly where we are today. (You know…..with our Chamber of Commerce next door to a junk yard, a detention center a half block from our downtown, a newly constructed saw mill no where near the industrial park……and this list could go on and on.) Two wrongs, at least in this case, will not make it right.
********in reference to the above statement*********
John Porter Price as we all know has been a chipmill owner in Monticello for many years. His addition of a sawmill has done nothing but add MANY jobs for Monticellonians, so who cares if it is at the industrial park??? WE (I say we since I do work there) will be using the existing scales, scalehouse, and corporate office in order to operate the new sawmill. It would have been pure ignorance to construct the mill anywhere other than where it is. You should really know what you are talking about before you comment on something, which is why I am not commenting on the story at hand. I have not done my research on it, and therefore have no opinion.
I just want to clarify my personal position on the continuation of the sales tax. I DO want the tax to be continued!!!
If we do not continue the tax, we WILL NOT be in a postion to do any planning, building, cleaning-up, or work toward bring in more jobs! It takes money to make things happen. If we do not have this tax, future growth will have no seed money from which to bud.
However, before money is spent, or bonds are issued, I would like for the city to develop long-range planning for the projects that the sales tax can help to pay for. Get community input. Conduct research to look at projected growth over the next 10 to 20 years. Make sure that we preserve the few historic places that we have left. And keep Monticellos reputation for being the “shining spot in the delta”.
The continuation of the sales tax is an issue that must be addressed now! We need it. We must work to pass it. But let’s not get in a rush on spending it without the appropriate planning!
Shelley - I simply sited the sawmill as yet another growth in this town that was not guided by any interest or concern of the community. It’s really a shame that you were offended by this statement as our focus has definitely not been on telling people “they don’t know what they’re talking about”, but has been and I hope will continue to be SOLELY on improving the quality of life in our community. I will not site examples here, but would be glad to discuss them with you in person if you’d like. Please know that I’ve done my homework…..have you?
Picture Monticello as a 1000 piece puzzle. When you can’t find where your piece belongs that will enhance the end product (the completed puzzle), people will inherently began forcing their pieces into the puzzle in the area that suites them best. In doing this ……that forced piece, located where it doesn’t belong, now renders many other pieces unusable.
I would simply like to see changes made that would depict what the completed puzzle looks like…….thus giving people a clue as to where their piece belongs.
JP Price Lumber, War Eagle, Seark Boats, Drew Foam; none are in the industrial park, and each of their locations can somewhat be described as out of the way. However, this does not affect their productivity, or expansion. Furthermore, why is this an issue? It has nothing to do with this tax or the construction of a community center. Here is the issue at hand. First, this tax must be passed in order to do anything in Monticello. Second, a community center is a good idea, and would be positive for our town, but how should we go about planning and building? Third, what should we do with the current municipal building? Basically Joe’s proposal boils down to the above three mentioned things. Now, we can agree or disagree with him till the cows come home, so to speak. No one agreed with everything James Jordan did; no one agreeded with everything Harold did; and no one agreed with everything David did. NO ONE IS GOING TO AGREE WITH EVERYTHING JOE DOES! You must, however, give him credit for stepping out on the front end, and getting the ball rolling for change. I think the best comment that has been made throughout this entire deal on here is that some of this money should be used to form a community planning committee for Monticello. We have an industrial park, we have a huge plot of land on 278 west for industry as well, and yet they both sit vacant. This HAS to be addressed or Monticello will eventually close up to be a ghost town. Will the community center be a draw for Monticello? Yes! Our Mayor is a public servant elected and re-elected by the people. I don’t think if anyone approached our Mayor to talk about this issue, he wouldn’t invite them to sit down and share their thoughts on it. One thing is for usre, we have to all work together to be a success, no matter what.
You are right, Josh, where any of the boat plants or other various mills are located has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I simply addressed it because someone else put it out there, and if you know nothing of the lumber industry, you would not understand that the logical decision would be to have both mills as close as possible to the corporate office.
And to that poster, I have already clearly stated, NO, I have not “done my homework” therefore I have no opinion on the real issue that this story is about.
I hope it comes down to some real indepth research being done, and hopefully in the end we will end up with a good compromise of what the majority wants. And I agree that no one will agree with the mayor 100% of the time. I am all for maintaining historic sites, but who decides what constitutes as one?
Has anyone realized this would be a ‘membership based’ community center? In the meeting this past week, it was announced that memberships would be sold for this center, which in turn, eliminates the real concept of this being a ‘community center’. Instead, this would be a glorified country club without the golf course or the serving of alcohol. So much for bringing the community together.
Everyone has all of these ideas, so why don’t you run for Mayor and you can address all of these issues that you have. You don’t know what all goes on in any office unless you work there. You don’t know what any job is like until you try it. The Mayor has barely been in office 2 months. Give him time. Everyone always wants to criticize, why not praise him for taking steps to improve our city. Joe, I think you are on the right track. To everone else, have you ever heard the phrase “together we stand, divided we fall” Think about it.
Jim-
I have to totally disagree with your post that the community center would be a glorified country club. Do some research. If you check around, you will find that many cities with facilities like the one being proposed for Monticello charge some sort of fee. This happens for several different reasons.
Being a member of an organization gives people a sense of ownership. The direct result of that is that people tend to take better care of things they own than things they do not. If anyone can walk into the building and use or misuse the facilities and equipment, the new jewel of the city will soon become a dump. Membership helps control (not limit) access in a way that you know who is using the center and how they’re using it. It’s a good management tool.
Secondly, the city already charges for special services as it is. You have to pay to use the McCloy Park pool, right? So why wouldn’t you pay to use this special center? Certainly, the sales tax’s job is to pay for the center, but membership fees will be used for maintenance and for staffing.
Kate-
So, if someone has issues with the city, they should run for mayor? And are you also saying that no one can complain about the mayor unless they have held the position themselves? I’m sorry, that doesn’t cut it.
Joe Rogers and David Anderson and Harold West and every other guy before them ran for the mayor’s office to represent the people. Sure, no mayor has ever made all of the people happy at once — that’s an impossible goal. However, as a mayor, you should represent the entire city — not just a single ward or special interest. Everyone who has voiced complaints — warranted or otherwise — has the right to do so and it would be in the best interest of the mayor (*any* mayor) to listen.
If memberships are paid for, making it similar to the YMCA in Warren, is it something “anyone” can join, or are there guidelines?
I think having memberships is a positive thing, as long as the cost isn’t too excessive. The Y in Warren is bursting at the seams with kids that are in organized sports and activities and I think that would be great for our community.
Keep in mind the overhead and operating expenses for Warren’s YMCA is a LOT smaller than it will be for the much larger more expensive facilities proposed. The YMCA is currently looking for ways to make more money….as they’re not able to cover their expenses……even with all those seam-bursting children.
I have read that it will offer a heated swimming pool, an indoor basketball court,walking track and fitness equipment but Is it going to offer anywhere near the services the YMCA in Warren offers,especially for children?
Don’t get me wrong,in general,I am for A community center……………
OK, let’s see, the median income in Drew County is currently just under $27K per year, so I wonder, just how many families would be financially able to purchase a membership, even if they wanted one. Anyone know how many members are currently paying for the McCloy Pool priviledges? Should be an interesting comparison.
Michael, interesting point about “Being a member of an organization gives people a sense of ownership” I was under the impression that this was going to be a community center, not an organization. And as far as ownership goes, when our tax monies go toward such a proposal, our entire community has ownership.
Jim-
I dunno. How many families afford city pool memberships? How many families afford registration fees for t-ball, baseball, softball, football, soccer, gymnastics? If the cost is reasonable, which I think it has to be in a city like Monticello… I imagine those same folks will be able to afford a membership to a community center.
Outside of police & fire protection, we rarely get anything for free from government. Our taxes pay for garbage trucks, but we have to pay the city for those trucks to come to our house. Our taxes pay for water mains, but we have to pay the city to get water delievered and sewage removed. Using that same logic, it seems okay that tax dollars would be spent to build a community center and some sort of fee would be involved to use it.
NITA: I DO want the tax to be continued!!!….It takes money to make things happen….The continuation of the sales tax is an issue that must be addressed now!” Nita, it does take money to make things happen, and, KATE, you say, “The Mayor has barely been in office 2 months. Give him time….Think about it” I believe you are right. To his credit he is making things happen. But I would like to “Think about it.” So, why must it happen “now!”? We are being pushed into a “Special” election (June 12) instead of being given time to “think about it” and vote for/against a tax imposition on Election Day (Nov. 12). I would prefer to think about it, and PLAN HOW to most effectively use the money if the tax were approved. After all, there are a couple of things about this tax imposition that need to be looked at before asking voters to support it. The money to construct the proposed community center would come from selling bonds, not the tax money directly. My heart says, “A community center would be wonderful!” My head says, “Whoa…wait a minute. There is a lot to consider here.” Does this mean in 15 years the bonds will be paid off? Maybe sooner, if the tax revenue continues to rise? What is the economy likely to do? What happened to the last “temporary” sales tax the community approved? Did we get more jobs and a better community development because of it? If not, why not? Did we vote on the right things last time? You know, each major item on the tax ballot has to be voted upon; that is, the construction of the center (1/2 of each 1 cent collected would have to go to pay off those bonds?), and other significant expenditures. What are those other significant expenditures? Should I trust that the Mayor in office ten or fifteen years from now will use the other monies wisely? Given my age, I could be dead in 15 years (what happened to the temporary tax?). My point is, folks, there is a lot to think about before you vote on approving a tax that will affect our retirement income. “But,” you say, “it is only a penny!” Well, a penny here, a penny there…and before you know it…. By the way, according to the Mayor’s comments at the meeting which is the subject of this whole blogthread, he believes the family “membership” in the new center would be between $300 to $360/family/year. Extra for special classes like aerobics. Ask him. He is a gentleman who will talk to any resident that calls for an appointment. Sorry this post has been so long. But, folks, this is important. Higher taxes can be used to improve the community and attract business, and, community taxes can chase some prospects away. We better think long and hard about any new or continued tax (temporary; only 15 years). And why a “Special” election “now!”? I know; do you?
Well if that is the case that is not affordable.Not for my family,and we make more than the average of “27,000(as stated above)”
Things like that will be the birth or death of this tax proposal-
After today, perhaps a portion of the sale tax money (if extended) should be spent on a tornado/severe weather warning system.
I would definitely be for that!
Yeah, what’s up with that? all of the severe weather that rolls over Monticello, and NO TORNADO SIRENS??? Makes me want to move to Louisville. Oh yeah - I already did!
Very well put Tim!!
Regarding the generation of funds(mostly via memberships) to make the structure cash flow (not taking into account the actual construction): The “community center” or organization……however you choose to look at it, is modeled after one recently built in Sherwood.
Has anyone realized that Sherwood has a population of over 2 times that of Monticello?
The last statistics I’ve seen for Sherwood, had their population listed at over 23,000 residents. I’ll agree…..building a community center is a great idea…..in THEORY. In it’s current design, location, and potential member-base, however, it’s just simply not feasible.
Shelly, my concern nor this particular blog, has ANYTHING to do with what’s best for the “Lumber Industry”. Price did what was best for Price PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
Josh, to clear up a few things mentioned earlier: Drew Foam is in the process of moving their business into an over 450,000 Square Foot, previously vacant building. I think that’s AMAZING. War Eagle has already done this which is ALSO AMAZING. Utilization of resources already available without wasting anyone’s money or resources what a novel idea SeaArk Boats and SeaArk Marine haven’t built any new division or made any substantial additions to their buildings or locations in at least 10 years. This, makes all these examples…..VERY different.
How this DIRECTLY relates to the topic at hand: The affects of poorly placed and poorly planned new construction are evident in the communities that house them. It also seems to be repeatedly implied that I dislike the mayor. That’s silly. It’s this poorly planned, half-baked idea that can in no way stand a chance of supporting itself I’m not fond of. Hey, I’m glad he’s trying…..it’s just time to hit the drawing board again.
I must say….the man has spunk though…..a $9 Mil + proposal in his first month. That’s over $900 for every resident of Monticello (regardless of their age). And then if every single resident joined the community center the memberships could never go lower than approximately $30 per year per member to pay to keep it open.
The tornado/severe weather warning system idea is the best idea I’ve heard for this area in a long time!
I have recently contactedthe Sherwood Recreation Center in an effort to obtain additional information.
Currently their annual rates are as follows:
Residents of Sherwood:
Adults $240/ year
Children ages 5-18 120/ year
So the typical family of 4 would have an annual membership of $700
Non-Residents of Sherwood:
Adults $268/ year
Children ages 5-18 144/ year
Family of 4 would have an annual membership of $824
Of course, since our community is less than 1/2 the size of Sherwood, it would only stand to reason that our rates would be MUCH higher.
I have a phone conference with Sherwood’s Recreation Center Director on Monday and should also obtain the specifics on their current number of members later this week. I will keep you posted on the information as I am made aware.
Thanks,
Chris McCall
Awesome research. Much more than I could afford to pay at THOSE rates, much less if the annual fees were even higher!
Okay, as to the original points of complaint for the initial publication, I am torn. Admittedly, it would appear that public involvement was definitly not the focus of the meeting as published in the note. On this point, there seems to be some general agreeance; myself included. It is infuriating to think that the public was only privately invited to a crucial meeting that was scheduled seemingly last minute as well as completely inconvenient for the general public. However, I am able to understand the reasoning behind the apparent audience focus.
My suggestion would follow the logical series of events used in the process of clinical research.
1. Protocol. Every aspect of the proposal should be mapped out. This includes everything from location specifics, costs, personnel requirements, membership, etc. There should be absolutely no question without an answer. RESEARCH! RESEARCH! RESEARCH! Every detail should be put to paper and available to the public.
2. Funding. Now, we can address where to get the money and the tax issue. Now is the time to bring it to a ballot. Only after we have a thorough understanding of the project can we hope to find the funds to complete it.
3. Implementation. Get on it and TRY to complete it within the time and expense already determined.
4. Review. Study every aspect to discovered both the successes and failures. Determine areas that can be improved, etc.
I certainly realize that there are problems that could occur even if these type of steps were taken, but I feel as though knowledge is key. The general public typically doesn’t even know the tax issues on our ballots. Heck, I have a college degree and still have to do some serious research to get past the garbled jargon on the ballot itself!! The status quo will always be maintained in the face of blissful ignorance. People are just not willing to support anything that they can’t understand.
So, Mr. Mayor, it’s fine to approach those community leaders for help on planning the project. Well done! Yes, they are some of our most successful citizens and would hopefully be quite aware of successful planning, but you must also focus so much more attention on taking it to the citizens of Monticello, WELL BEFORE THE BALLOT!!!
As to all the previous posters, I am so pleased to see such a response. But I am overjoyed to see those of my own generation taking initiative. It gives me great hope for the future of my hometown.
Incredible research Chris! Thanks for the initiative! I anxiously await your further information.
Kim, Chris, Shelley, Kellie & Jim: You guys are SLAM-BAM ON IT!! AWESOME. Chris, outstanding work. Kellie, fantastic post! If I’m going to vote on a tax (old, new, continuing, etc), it had better be well researched and planned, with all questions answered in time for me to digest/approve it before I’ll vote for it. And, research and plans take time. I do not agree that now is the time to vote on a tax. Our City Government has got to do exactly what Kellie suggests and show us a plan that has been well thought through. The construction costs of $9million is the tip of the iceberg and I do not agree that we should “jump” now JUST to avoid future cost increases. Communicate, communicate, comunicate. As difficult as it is to understand the complexities associated with building a Community Center, the electorate must have time to make an informed vote. I think our Mayor wants to inform, but he is anxious to see his proposal implemented. And a special election is a sneaky was to do it.
Kim, Chris, Shelley, Kellie & Jim: You guys are SLAM-BAM ON IT!! AWESOME. Chris, outstanding work. Kellie, fantastic post! If I’m going to vote on a tax old, new, continuing, etc, it had better be well researched and planned, with all questions answered in time for me to digest/approve it before I’ll vote for it. And, research and plans take time. I do not agree that now is the time to vote on a tax. Our City Government has got to do exactly what Kellie suggests and show us a plan that has been well thought through. The construction costs of $9million is the tip of the iceberg and I do not agree that we should “jump” now JUST to avoid future cost increases. Communicate, communicate, comunicate. As difficult as it is to understand the complexities associated with building a Community Center, the electorate must have time to make an informed vote. I think our Mayor wants to inform, but he is anxious to see his proposal implemented. And a special election is a sneaky way to do it.
Here is the problem with the continuation of the current tax based upon my thoughts and conversations with others.
When the current tax was passed approximately ten years ago one group in particular that supported the passage of the tax were the parents of girls and boys who played in the city softball and baseball leagues. These parents were told that upon passage of the tax that a sports complex much like the one located in ElDorado would be built and that it would be completed within three years. At that time I had a daughter entering the eighth grade. This past May she received her bachelors degree and to the best of my knowledge the sports complex has not been completed to the point that it approaches the quality of either the ElDorado or Warren complex (covered bleachers, walkways, etc.)
From my conversations with others I find that there is a reluctance to continue a tax when the taxpayers feel that commitments made have not been met.
It is also my feeling that at this point in time the city should be more concerned with attracting manufacturing jobs to Monticello than constructing a community center. The city will eventually reach the point that it will no longer continue to grow (it may have already reached that point) without bringing in jobs that will support a middle class life style.
I grew up in a small town that was controlled by a few people that prevented industry from coming to that town. Today that town is practically dead. I fear that is the direction in which Monticello is headed.
DP, good post. “From my conversations with others I find that there is a reluctance to continue a tax when the taxpayers feel that commitments made have not been met.” I would only add that we need to attract jobs, whether manufacturing or service or educational or medical or retail, etc. I am afraid if we focus only on manufacturing we will be sorely disappointed. In fact, it would probably give us a better return to work on enhancing our current manufacturing (boat companies, timber related) growth rather than counting on new manufacturing. Community supported infrastructure that would help them would also help other prospective employers. If you wanted to start a successful business, what would you look for? First, the basics: good communication capability, roads, water, sewer, transportation, electricity, employees. If you are providing a service, communications is a must. If you are making things, you need the capability to distribute those things to market. The quality of community life is important but not as important as the need to communicate and/or distribute. Also, remember that most jobs are provided by small employers, so what can the community do to enhance the business environment for them?